Packers need some outside help
Packers are thin at OLB
Coach Mike McCarthy continues to leave the door open to the possibility of acquiring an outside linebacker before the start of the regular season – and for good reason. As of today, the Packers look to be extremely thin at arguably the most important position in a 3-4 defense. Even if one assumes that second-year man Brad Jones will blossom into a quality player – and that’s far from a given – the backups are dubious at best. Brady Poppinga is the only reserve with starting experience, but that was mostly in a 4-3. And truth be told, the former BYU star wasn’t particularly effective even while performing in a scheme that was better suited to his skill set.
The coaches are hopeful that one of the undrafted free agents will step up in the summer, but none of the youngsters did a thing in the offseason to suggest they’ll be ready to contribute in 2010. And while the always creative Dom Capers gave inside linebacker Brandon Chillar and even defensive lineman Cullen Jenkins some work outside during last month’s mandatory mini-camp, neither player is viewed as the long-term answer should something happen to either Jones or Pro Bowler Clay Matthews.
So who might be available should Ted Thompson go searching for help in August? That’s impossible to know in early July, but you’d have to believe Green Bay’s always diligent general manager already has Ozzie Newsome on speed dial. That’s because no team does a better job of drafting and then developing 3-4 outside linebackers than the Ravens. Whether it’s a first-rounder (Terrell Suggs), a mid-rounder (Jarret Johnson) or a late-rounder (Adalius Thomas), the well of quality outside linebackers in Baltimore never seems to run dry. And this year is no exception. Sitting behind Suggs, Johnson and prized rookie Sergio Kindle are a pair of talented young players – either of whom would be a welcome addition to the Packers.
Antwan Barnes is a fourth-year player from who has yet to start a game in his pro career, but the former Florida International star is blessed with good size and speed and he’s always performed well when given an opportunity. A number of teams inquired about the 25-year-old last summer, but Newsome wasn’t ready to make a deal. He may be more receptive this time around. Paul Kruger is a second-year player who started one game in ‘09. The Ravens are so deep at outside linebacker that the former Utah star worked mostly at defensive end during the offseason, but he’s probably a better fit standing up. Think of Kruger as a younger, bigger and much more athletic version of Poppinga.
Barnes and Kruger are two young outside linebackers with talent, but they aren’t the only ones. Three years ago, in desperate need of a running back, Thompson acquired Ryan Grant from the Giants for a sixth-round pick. There are plenty of hidden gems around the league; finding them is the tricky part. And if all else fails, Thompson can always sign one of the many veterans who are sure to get discarded at some point during training camp. Such a player almost certainly wouldn’t provide the production of a Grant, but he wouldn’t have to. He’d just have to be better than Poppinga, and you shouldn’t have to work too hard to find someone like that.
I don’t know anything about Barnes, so I can’t really comment on him. Kruger is a Kampman clone… He doesn’t have the athleticism to play OLB, IMO. I don’t see anything that jumps out to make him more than a backup 34 OLB. I think he could be a good 43 DE, but its an entirely different position. I wouldn’t trade for Kruger. I would take a longer look at the Steelers for OLB help! They have always been able to draft and develop OLB. Harrison and Woodley are absolute studs! Harrison going from undrafted FA to DPOY! Doesn’t get better.
Personally I would move Poppinga to ILB. His best attribute is his physical style of play would fit best there, IMO. Problems is we already have an abundance of ILB, coming from the 43 that would be expected, as the OLB in a 34 doesn’t have near the same role as a 43 OLB and is actually best at 34 ILB. We are still a couple years from having the depth at OLB to perfectly fit the 34. Unless the UFA become players, its going to be hard to find. 34 OLB are among the most difficult positions to draft for… And its risky taking a project in the top couple rounds of the draft.
I watched paul kruger a few times last year. He is a BEAST. I’d go bishop for kruger in a heartbeat if newsome wanted.
Like you said he can slide into DE if needed and I garauntee capers could find a use for him in one of his many packages.
Still don’t know why they don’t try Bishop outside. Think he wouldn’t get to the QB?
Nerd… Bishop has NEVER played OLB in his life! He was a 43 MikeLB coming out of Cal. He’s never rushed the passer consistently in his life, and now you think he is suddenly going to be able to???
Jeremiah… If we played 43 I would trade for him as a DE, but not as a 34 OLB. Just like Kampman, like I said. Remind me how Kampman was doing at OLB?…
Kruger may or may not be a good fit in the 34, but I think he’d have a better chance for success than Kampman. Kruger is a much younger player who already has experience at the position. Trying to take a 30 year old who spent his entire career at DE and turn him into an OLB was ill-conceived from the start.
I wonder how the Packers would have competed as a 4-3 team last year with a creative DC. It just looked good on paper to me. A front four of Kampman, Raji, Pickett and Jenkins. A LB group consisting Barnett, Hawk, and Matthews. And, a secondary of Harris, Woodson, Collins, and Bigby. It would have have been fun to watch a good DC coach that group.
Anyway….I agree that getting production at LOLB will be huge this year if this defense is going to take it up a notch especially against top flight QB’s. A trade is interesting. We are deep at WR. They are deep at OLB’s. Hmm….. Maybe we won’t get to see that Jordy/Jones camp battle.
I think Capers was willing to do it, but MM put a stop to it and insisted on a complete transformation to the 3-4.
You’re 100% correct. From the day he hired Capers, MM made it perfectly clear that the defense was going to be a 3-4 and only a 3-4. Not sure why that was so important to MM, but it was.
TT and staff will figure out what if anything to do. What I like is we have the ability to acquire help. If Kampman plays anywhere near his potential we should receive a 4th maybe even a 3rd round comp pick in next year’s draft. We should also have players/extra picks available due to the team’s depth to trade for help.
Kampman and Jenkins never played OLB either.
Anyway, what makes anyone think TT will do anything about the situation? Did he address the Oline last year? Well, he eventually signed Tauscher. Did he address the Dline the year before? I guess he gambled on KGB’s knee. Did he address the RB situation the year before that? Well, I guess he drafted Brandon Jackson and DeShawn Wynn and traded for Grant. LOL.
Fact is, TT likes going into a season with glaring holes and then relying on his guys. If he does make a move, it AIN’t gonna be flashy.
Nice report on teams with surplus at OLB. I like the idea of Bishop and Poppinga at ILB and Hawk/Barnett on the street.
Back to OLB – don’t forget about C Obiozor. The kid is physically gifted. Huge and long and flexible. This will be his 2nd TC and his time might be here, at least for first line depth.
But, if TT can pull off a mid rd pick for a young OLB with starter quality, I’m all for it. Even if Obi blossoms as I’m hoping, there is room for another.
There are two injuries this team can’t afford – AROD and Claymaker III.
And Woodson of course.
stroh-
the thing i like about kruger is he is bigger. and i wouldn’t want to use him as an every down LOLB. i think if AK had not of been such a big name player, he could have excelled in a backup/situational role at the position. kruger would not present the same problems of “well we HAVE to find a way to get him on the field as much as possible”.
AND it does not look like desmond bishop is going to ever get a chance to be more than a situational guy himself in GB. why not move him for a younger guy who showed more potential, while we still can.
for the record, i am in the “brad jones is gunna whip some ass this year” camp.:-)
Jeremiah.. Teams have actually called the Packers about Bishop! Presumably to be a starter for them… But the Packers front office has to date not made the move. Don’t think they are too intent on trading him and I don’t know the offer either. So Bishop is highly thought of by both the Packers and other teams. It would have to be a good deal for a starter!!!
Not sold on Jones… Has to prove to be a good pass rusher opposite of Matthews and hold up better vs the run. Will he still have the same speed after gaining almost 20lbs this offseason?
Kruger when I looked him up was listed at 6’4 260 Kampman was 6’4 265… Same size. If I’m trading for anyone its w/ the idea he is going to upgrade a starting position. Don’t see Kruger doing that, but you are correct he is younger and might turn out better than the 30 yr old Kampman.
I saw kruger listed at 278….
Ravens home page lists him at 265 and as a OLB/DE. NFL Home has him at 260. If he is 278 he is putting on wt to become a DE, which, IMO would be a good move. He cannot play OLB at nearly 280! If he can gain wt to 290 or so, he stands a good chance of becoming a quality DE…
If you look at the two Free Agent LBs that Green Bay signed, they have one thing in common….very impressive quickness and first 10 yard speed. That is why I think Matthews is so effective. The duo of Jones and Poppinga will provide a stable but not spectatular results. In another year or two the OLBs won’t be an issue. I see the Claymaker being a greater dynamic player than Dallas’s Ware.
Brad Jones has already proven to be a quality player. In 7 starts he’s had 26 solo tackles, 7 assists and 4 sacks as a rookie. Extrapolate those stats to a full season and you’ve really got something.
Why would we want Paul Kruger? 4 solo tackles, 7 assists and 0 assists last year. If he had that kind of performance in Green Bay we’d be calling him a bust.
Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson have both left the door open to acquiring an outside linebacker. They’ve also left the door open to acquiring a player at any other position. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
[...] off a trade with the Baltimore Ravens for some outside linebacker help is an option, says Michael Rodney of Packer Update. “Antwan Barnes is a fourth-year player from who has [...]
Bernie… Jones still has ALOT to prove!!! He didn’t provide anywhere near a consistent pass rush! Most of his sacks were coverage sacks. His run D was less than stellar as he got pushed around far too easily. Was he even on the field vs AZ? I mean he is ablsolutely invisible, and it wasn’t only that game. Most games he started he was personna non gratta… He simply wasn’t an impact player in any sense of the word!!! Until he starts showing up in diffence making plays he isn’t playing the way a LOLB should in a 34 defense!!!
The thing I’m not keen on is during the Ron Wolf era efforts were made to address glaring holes during the off season. Wolf would draft for need at times (3 DB’s in 1st 3 rounds), trade, or sign FA to compete for spots when there was a glaring need. I don’t see that out of Ted Thompson. He seems to draft players, go with what we have, and that’s usually it. It’s bothersome to me because I think we are only a few players away from having an extremely competitive team and I’d like to see efforts made to get those players (namely OLB, K, P, CB) where glaring needs exist.
Another nice thing about Wolf is he made an effort to acquire multiple dominant pass rushing threats. It seems Ted Thompson’s teams usually have only one dominant pass rushing threat. Hope I’m wrong this year though. Go Pack!
Oops please allow me to caveat my post in that the glaring need at CB is more specifically depth at CB.
I totally agree about Jones still having a lot to prove. I applaud him for stepping in and doing a solid job last season, but I’m not convinced that he’s the long term answer. He’s kinda small for the position and his disappearing act in the playoffs is concerning. I wish him all the best, but I think it would be a mistake not to add a veteran during training camp.
Last time a current Ravens’ OLB had double digit sacks was in 2004 (Suggs). But don’t let that fact stop you from saying that “no team does a better job of drafting and then developing 3-4 outside linebackers than the Ravens.”
And, of course, the number of sacks is the only way to judge a 3-4 OLB. Nevermind that since GM Ozzie Newsome has been in Baltimore, 3 different Ravens OLBs have gone to a combined 9 Pro Bowls.
And now pro-bowl is a way to judge an OLB? A popular vote?
And even by that, in the last 5 years, only Suggs, twice, and as a backup both times, was elected. And in arguable mediocre seasons (2008 was okay, he did have 8 sacks, 2 ints, 2 ffs and 2 tds, but 07 was on name alone, having 5 sacks and 1 ff…)
And for Antwan Barnes, in 37 games, he has 5 sacks. Jones has 4 in 14 games… But, yeah, sacks aren’t important…
I judge players with my eyes and not by reading stats. Suggs gets consistent pressure on the QB despite double teams and Jarret Johnson is one of the better all-around 3-4 OLBs in the league. I don’t want to trash Jones, but he very rarely got consistent pressure on the QB. 4 sacks is all well and good, but harassing the QB and forcing offenses to respect you is far more important.
Wanna go by pressures?
Clay Matthews III – 919 snaps, 26 QB pressures
Brad Jones – 404 snaps, 10 QB pressures
Terrell Suggs – 865 snaps, 21 QB pressures
Jarret Johnson – 1,032 snaps, 11 QB pressures
Antwan Barnes – 168 snaps, 7 QB pressures
Paul Kruger – 176 snaps, 4 QB pressures
Still, edge GB… Look, I understand what you’re saying, Obiozor and Pops aren’t even decent backups. But don’t pretend the other teams in the league have it, because they don’t. The Steelers have, BY FAR, the best OLB situation in the league, with Harrison and Woodley, and the best 3-4 OLB pedigree with Porter and Haggans, but they also don’t have any proven backups. They have high draft picks, but those don’t necessarily translate to NFL sucess.
With Jones we’re talking about a rookie that statistically outperformed most 1st and 2nd round picks last year. This dude outperformed Aaron Maybin, Everette Brown, Paul Kruger, Larry English, etc.
His first step is like lightning and some of you say he was lost at times. Don’t worry. He was found hiding behind the Gatorade cooler.
I’m glad you found him hiding behind the gatorade… He sure wasn’t making his presence felt on the field! I hope he can provide what is needed at that position, but its far from a certainty.
Were the players you listed even given the opportunity the way Jones was last year? Kruger was on the bench. Maybin was buried in Buffalo and needed the same thing Jones did. More wt and physicality. Brown played in a 43 D as an OLB, so he had a transition to make from DE to OLB.
Jones did have a pretty good 10 split at his pro day, but that was at 232 lbs. Can he keep that same quickness at 250? Or will the added wt slow him down and rob him of that needed trait?
Like everyone, I’m really concerned about OLB and finding one who can really be a bookend to Matthews. My fear is that, as usual, TT is fixated on getting a “cheapie” LB, not one who could be an immediate help. You get only what you pay for.
Bishop will be lucky to make the team, he is just another Rouse or Hodge, makes some big plays if they are in front of him and against lessor talent in preseason, but is so physically limited at NFL level he will be nothing more than situational player and a liability if he has to start.
Hawk and Barnett on the street with Poppinga and Bishop playing inside? That might be the worse comment I ever read.
Barnes has done nothing in the NFL, another DE that’s making the change to OLB, and so far he has shown little. Barnes lacks the most important thing for a LB, Instict’s.
If Barnes was the answer why would they draft Kindle, move Jones back to OLB, I’m not saying Barnes wouldn’t be a good addition.
But I doubt very much he would be better then either Jones or Poppinga.
I also think they have two prospects all ready on the team, In OBiozor and Zombo both were DE’s in college, above average athletes, Obiozor is 6-4 249# and Zombo 6-3 254#. Both are quick and Fast and have WAY above average agility.
This on Zombo Very athletic and quick DE. Also quite good at pursuit down the field for a big lineman. Led his team in 2008 with 15.5 TFL and 9 sacks. Can sometimes get very good penetration and can cause chaos in the opposing backfield. Has some good speed rush moves along the outside and his footwork is very impressive. Smart player and with his relentless motor he is very difficult to stop, despite his relatively small size.
He has lost about 15# to play OLB even quicker yet and has been reported to be able to bring it in pass rush from OTA’s.
Obiozor has all the tools and a full off season of development and coaching, He looked quite good in the Seattle game last year.
The one other thing to go with it on all the OLB’s is there coach, Greene did one hell of a job with Matthews and Jones last year, as he will with these players.
The biggest difference is pass rush is going to come from the INSIDE this year, from the Dline. Raji playing where he should and healthy, the addition of two DE’s with pass rush in Neal and Wilson and the changes they have asked Jenkins to make over the off season.
Bishop led the team in tackles on special teams last season.
30 responses? Wow, the new format is working. Nice article.