Rookie Worthy is another undersized defensive end
Commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Anthony Hargrove for 8 games last week for his part in the Saints bounty scandal, and just like that the Packers are in danger of lacking sufficient depth on the defensive line for the second year in a row. As of now, Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji and second-round pick Jerel Worthy figure to be the starters when the season opens in September, with C.J. Wilson, Jarius Wynn, Daniel Muir, Lawrence Guy, Johnny Jones and fourth-round pick Mike Daniels fighting for backup spots.
That’s not exactly a plethora of talent. So unless one or two of the young returnees make great strides in the next few months, general manager Ted Thompson would be wise to get on the phone and see if he can procure a proven veteran to, at the very least, help out until either Mike Neal returns from his own suspension (for PEDs) in week 5 or until Hargrove re-emerges sometime in November. If not, we could be in store for more Wynn and Wilson in 2012.
Besides a lack of depth, there’s one other thing that sticks out about the current group of defensive linemen. Besides Guy and Jones – neither of whom was on the active roster for a single game in 2011 – there’s not a legitimate 3-4 end to be found. In fact, the last legitimate 3-4 end to play for the Packers was Johnny Jolly. The former Texas A&M star and current inmate had the prototypical size (6’4, 325) and power to do what 3-4 ends are supposed to do – stuff the run and disrupt passing lanes. Remember how tough it was to move the ball on the ground against the defense in ’09? Remember how many balls were batted down at the line of scrimmage? A lot of that was due to Jolly’s presence.
Raji and Worthy would make a great 1-2 punch at tackle in a 4-3, but I don’t love either one at end in a 3-4. Raji’s best season as a pro came in 2010, which was not coincidentally the one season he played nose tackle. The further he gets away from the football, the less effective he becomes. As for Worthy, his struggles with double teams and penchant for wearing down will only be exacerbated at end. Wilson, Wynn and Daniels are also better suited to play tackle in a 4-3.
Thompson could’ve added a more prototypical 3-4 end in round two, but he chose Worthy over Devon Still, the former Penn State standout who stands nearly three inches taller and played the run far more consistently in college. But Still isn’t much of a pass rusher, and after watching Wynn, Wilson, an overused Raji and an injured Neal feebly attempt to rush the QB in 2011, it’s obvious Thompson’s No. 1 priority this offseason was to add players who could create pressure in obvious passing situations. Worthy and Daniels should be able to do just that. Thompson couldn’t solve all the problems on defense in one offseason. Ideally, he’ll be able to beef up the base with the 32nd pick next April.
Completely reasonable observation, but:
1) How many teams even play 40% of their defensive snaps in base? Steelers? The leagues offensive coordinators know the biggest lack of NFL talent on every roster happens once you force defenses to use nickle and dime backs. Most nickle backs in the NFL don’t belong on NFL rosters. Dime backs are awful. Tough to run base when you’re forced to run nickle and dime packages so frequently.
2) Is there any rarer player available in every draft than the true body-type of a 3-4 end with the actual ability to match? You can count them on one hand every year. Unless you’re perpetually picking in the top 10 and can access the likes of J.J. Watt you just can’t find that player. The ones that can rush, have length and play the run just don’t exist.
Now nickle type defensive rushers that can press or push a pocket? Many of those in every draft.
What do you think of Phillip Merling as a possible low risk move to address the base defense? He was released by Miami a few weeks back and he is still relatively young (27). He was highly regarded coming out of college but for many reasons he has been a bust with Miami. He should be fully recovered from his 2010 injury and I bet he would be cheap.
I thought about Merling too. He’s a legitimate 3-4 end, but is he a legitimate NFL player? I’m not so sure.
That’s the big question about him and I would guess he’s not but he si the type of player that you can sometimes get lucky with.
IMO the interesting thing for the Packers this year is the suspensions and how they effect the roster. The Packers basically have a 4 game window before Neal returns and then another 4 game window before Hardgrove returns. That could give them an opportunity to give a “long shot” a chance.
I think the coaches are after D-line guys that can dirupt the pocket and possibly bring in some sacks. Pressure from the inside and allow Matthews and other player (Perry/Zombo/Walden) to get sacks and additional pressure. Stopping the run seems to have become a secondary issue. The only reason in my mind as why draft a DT as short as Daniels unless he can pressure the QB.
Two possibilities from TT:
(1) “We like our guys.”
(2) The new passing rules may be redefining the role of a 3-4 base DE i.e., a little less run stop and a little more pass rush e.g., CJ type. Teams pass at a high clip on all downs now.
Rick’s take at PackerNet says Perry will play Elephant and the player next to him will be a 3 Tech. This D he says is basically a 4-3 under. If this is true I think the depth chart would look like:
—Perry/So’oto/Walden at Elephant. Plays to their strengths of rushing and minimize their deficiencies in coverage.
—Raji, Hargrove, Worthy, Daniels, Wynn, and Wilson would man the two inside positions allowing for more push inside.
—Pickett. Neal, Guy, and Muir would man the 5 Tech acting as fire hydrants holding the edge and occupying blockers. Don’t know where Jones would fit.
W/ the proliferation of the passing game I think Capers wants more inside push on all downs which the players added would help. But this D also would put pressure on the ILB’s ability to cover hence moving Lattimore inside and drafting Manning. I’m also wondering if Sean Richardson could play a “rover back”. They say he’s stiff in coverage but he has enough size and speed to keep up w/ TE’s, which killed us last season. Your thoughts?
I read the article you referenced. It would seem the new draft picks would fit a move from the standard 3-4 to an elephant 3-4. If that is what Capers is planning, it would seem to fill the new personnel. Would both DEs play 3 technique? If so, that may mean Pick moves back to NT. if this is what they are doing, I assume they won’t reveal it until game 1 vs 9rs.
Would both DEs play 3 technique? No, the DE3 and the NT would be inside and the DE5 would hold the edge. I think the pieces really fall into place for this D. including what Michael said above…
“Raji and Worthy would make a great 1-2 punch at tackle in a 4-3, but I don’t love either one at end in a 3-4. Raji’s best season as a pro came in 2010, which was not coincidentally the one season he played nose tackle. The further he gets away from the football, the less effective he becomes. As for Worthy, his struggles with double teams and penchant for wearing down will only be exacerbated at end.”
BTW-I watched a CM3 highlight from 2010 and forgot how many of his pressures/sacks came from the inside. Here’s the LOLB/ILB depth chart.
LOLB: CM3, Zombo, and Jones.
ILB: Bishop, Hawk, Smith, Manning, Francois, and Lattimore.
I’ve read multiple posts on several boards today critical of Raji. It’s clear to me he suffered from not having Jenkins on the line with him last year. He got all the scheme attention and way too many snaps.
The best thing for him is Worthy getting push. There is an article in the JSOnline about the 1st day of rookie camp and how fast Worthy’s 1st step is (I’m a little excited about that).
who cares about stopping the run. teams need to pass to keep up with us, and thus we need to rush the passer to keep them down. stopping the run is completely secondary for us.
In general I agree except for against the likes of the 9rs defense.
You’re overstating the importance of the career journeyman Hargrove, Michael. The drafting of both Worthy and Daniels along with Muir = THREE additions to the mix. As Hargrove has never played a down in GB, he isn’t a subtraction. Then you have roster cuts across the NFL in June and before the season starts. They’ll be fine without the minimum salary, miscreant distraction Tony Hargrove.
I agree as Hargrove is a complete unknown as to whether he would bring anything. Seattle did not see enough to re-sign him and he signed a one-year, vet minimum deal which means teams were not exactly clamoring for his services.
Also, let’s hold off on assuming Hargrove will actually serve that suspension this season. A lawsuit could delay that punishment from being enforced similar to the StarCaps case.
Seattle felt signing Jones from Tenn was an upgrade so they let Hargrove go. But I like what his teammate said. Defensive tackle Red Bryant says he’ll miss playing with the defensive end.
“He’s definitely a high-energy guy,” Bryant said. “His motor is always running. He’s definitely going to be a guy you can count on to make a big play throughout the course of the game and throughout the course of the season. He has a high energy, a high motor. Put in the right situation, it’s definitely going to pay off.”
Bryant re-signed with the Seahawks for five years, $35 million. A big reason for that payday was Hargrove, he said.
“He was a phenomenal teammate, a great guy,” Bryant said. “He’s definitely a team-oriented guy and a great leader. He did a great job for us last year. We’re definitely going to miss him around the locker room. We truly did enjoy him last year, especially myself.”
High motor, good locker room guy, was productive. If he’s over his off field issues may be a nice addition.
Good stuff about Hargrove. I know two years ago he was a force to deal with.
Just listened to all the new videos on Packer.com of the rookie draft picks on their first day as GB Packers. They were all thoughtful, respectful and articulate. Very impressive guys from a people perspective. Can’t wait till the opener vs 9rs. Sunday 9/9 4:15pm est at Lambeau Field! Will the defense look like 2011 or 2010? That is the $64,000 question for the 2012 season. I’m not saying that game alone will provide the answer. Although it could if the defense rises up and plays well. It is very possible it could take a month or two or three even before the new defense finds itself. The wildcard seems to be Nick Perry. Will he be the real deal and if so, how long will it take for him to become a consistent counter-force to CMIII. We need to get improvement from two sources – the vets need to play back to their 2010 form and the rookies need to be more productive than the guys they replace. Sitting here today, on a sunny Saturday in May, the chances for both seem pretty good. And just think if McMillan becomes the starter at S? I’m still strongly in the camp that believes AJ Hawk has no game and should be cut. Play Smith and Bishop on early downs and bring in Lattimore and Manning on passing downs. I also like Francois. Hawk is a zero.
One other quote from Bryant:
“I grew as a football player from the meeting room with just the way he (Hargrove) studied film and broke down our opponent,” Bryant said. “From a work-ethic standpoint, he’s going to be a guy who’s the first person in and the last person to leave. He’s definitely a pro’s pro.”
Archie “The wildcard seems to be Nick Perry.”
Capers has wanted complete OLB’s. If he switches to an elephant or Leo hybrid Walden and So’oto could also excel. It’s early but it made sense that the heavier Perry was lined up on the left side signaling CM3 moving back to ROLB.
I haven’t given up on Hawk yet though I’m close. A coach at the Senior Bowl who was at OSU when Hawk was there said “he’s too big”. So if Hawk slims down and works on his agility and speed he still could be effective. If not, MM/TT have replacements in place.
I would predict a return to the SB if you could guarantee me that Hawk doesn’t play for the Pack this year. It was so much more fun watching the Pack defense last year when he was hurt. With Hawk we lose to NYG, w/o him, we beat ‘em. Maybe Smith and Manning will finish him off soon. Hawk looked good in college but not so much at the Combine – was very stiff in the middle. I suspect he was on the juice in college and gave it up just before the combine.